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Demons/fallen angels

topic posted Sat, November 29, 2003 - 2:02 AM by  Unsubscribed
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Ok I have a question. One that I doubt anyone will be able to answer but....
It's said a lot that Demons are Fallen Angels, but are we sure that's what they are exactly? Because demons can't get women pregnant right? And in the old testament fallen angels got women pregnant and those women gave birth to giants. Plus, if demons are spirit beings, then how were the fallen angels "known to most as demons" walking around on the earth getting women pregnant? Ok just something to think about.
God Bless
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  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Wed, December 3, 2003 - 10:28 AM
    Hey Jessica - we've talked in e-mail briefly, thanks for stopping by!

    I certainly don't have the answers to this one as I'm trying to get some insight myself. Can you site the scriptures regarding the fallen angels and the prenancies resulting in giants? This will help me find some context.

    Personally, I'm wavering about what, in actuality, demons and angels are. I believe in reincarnation, though I am a Christian - I think the two fit hand-in-hand. It's currently my belief that what we know as angels may be classified in different ways, like the spirit guides of deceased relatives who may come back to serve as guardian angels. In this way, can negative folks who pass over choose to come back as tempters of people? Even the bad must have their love, right?
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      Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Wed, December 3, 2003 - 5:45 PM
      Hiya:)
      One scripture stating that Giants were born of Fallen Angels and Women is Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
      I don’t believe that people can come back as Angels. That isn’t stated in scripture anywhere. Angels were made Angels and we were made people. Since Angels were created before the creation of men, then Angels couldn’t be men who chose to come back as Angels. According to Christian beliefs there is a heaven and a hell. If a wicked person got to choose to come back as what they wanted, it wouldn’t be much of a hell. It would be more of a heaven to them wouldn’t it? So I can’t say that I can agree with that either. But, if you can show me scriptures, I’m open to learn:)
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        Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Wed, December 3, 2003 - 6:04 PM
        and thus...the reason i am not christian
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          Re: Demons/fallen angels

          Wed, December 3, 2003 - 7:58 PM
          What's the reason?
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            Re: Demons/fallen angels

            Wed, December 3, 2003 - 10:55 PM
            rigid system of belief...well, most religions are pretty rigid...guess that is why i dont subscribe
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              Re: Demons/fallen angels

              Wed, December 3, 2003 - 10:58 PM
              and i'm afraid of the giants
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                Re: Demons/fallen angels

                Thu, December 4, 2003 - 3:18 AM
                Hahahaha.. "and i'm afraid of the giants". That made me laugh for a super long time. But anyways, I guess I've never really thought of it as a rigid belief system. To me it's more like having one truth, so why believe more than one? Kind of like umm... Avacodos being green. Let's say you don't like them being green and you just don't want them to be green and you hate following the belief of them being green. It doesn't matter they are! That's not rigid it's just the truth. (Sorry that was the best analogy I could think up hehe) So to me, it's not following a rigid belief system, it's following the truth... see?:)
                • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                  Thu, December 4, 2003 - 2:54 PM
                  Ewww, maybe the demon in me talking? I just have to say that whereas I'm a Christian (or believe myself to be), that the Bible, tangibly, was written by so many different MEN, that it's now sort of a diluted chronicle. The true word of God exists not on paper, but in each of us. It's buried beneath flesh and fallacy - through the spirit of truth, we can divine it - but as with all things, we must take the words as guidance and then pray for illumination from within, from the God within us all - the bit of spirit that we carry along. If this makes sense - historically speaking, so much has been changed in the Bible, left out, added in, who can know exactly what was being transcribed unless we find the original texts?

                  So, rigid? Only if you do not seek the deeper truth, that which is obscured by our own best intentions. (How's that for enigmatic?)
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                    Re: Demons/fallen angels

                    Thu, December 4, 2003 - 4:33 PM
                    Very well said, Bing. Words are but symbols twice removed from their source. They'll always be interpreted subjectively.

                    Jesus simply said, "I am the Light". The key word there was "am". A statement of present fact. To simply repeat that phrase to yourself, is one of the most powerful affirmations ever recorded in the history of mortalkind.

                    Repeat after me:

                    "I am the Light"

                    Gotta give props to J.C. for keeping it sweet and simple.
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                      Re: Demons/fallen angels

                      Thu, December 4, 2003 - 9:09 PM
                      Well, worrying about how much the bible has been changed throughout the years is obviously understood. But, I’ve decided that since it is what the Lord has given us I won’t doubt the things it says. To me, it would be silly to say that our all powerful God can’t make sure that what should be in the bible stays in the bible. Just my opinion:)
                      LoL It's kind of funny how this thread started, and then what it has ended up.
                      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                        Thu, December 4, 2003 - 9:40 PM
                        Jess - it is kind of funny, but like a telegraph line game or a grapevine, you see how things change as they're passed through the filters of man.

                        Since God gave each of us free choice, why wouldn't it be understandable that he could pass His word down the chosen, the original disciples and then the apostles and then the folks throughout history who were given the task of translating from the original Hebrew into so many different languages, and by this time, the seeds of discord had been sown - men had their own agendas with Christ's gospels. Do you believe that God would allow His own word to be sullied, just as a part of the plan that involved the granting of free will to His creations?

                        If God would've forced His hand in making sure that the Bible stayed true, then the concept of humans *choosing* to follow His light would be false. Remember, Jesus came to save us from the law of the word by saying "I am the way, the truth and the light" - He didn't say "the Bible", he distinctly said that you should believe in Him.

                        Whoa - goin' back to my old school teachings there - lemme step down offa this pulpit. : ) Of course - my classes, if they were frozen in time, would be quite shocked to hear me proclaim, "oops - must be the demon in me." How open our minds can get - but the more you pare away the shadows, the more you discover the insidiously true nature of the flesh. Whatta strange world......
                        • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                          Thu, December 4, 2003 - 9:44 PM
                          Funnily enough, I quoted scripture in that last post, which very well could be mis-translated. so why do I believe that particular scripture? Because it resonates within me, checked by the litmus test of the Holy Spirit, whom, regardless of my fleshy side and the temptations of demons, remains my engine. The opposite of love is destruction, one builds and one tears down. Ultimately, you can use this as a ruler for who is on what side. Okay, I'm done now. : )
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                            Re: Demons/fallen angels

                            Thu, December 4, 2003 - 11:08 PM
                            Haha it is funny how that worked out :p I suppose in the end you have to decide whether or not you're going to take the word of God for truth or not. I do and will. If you look at it in another way, without the bible many wouldn't have Jesus to believe in. Although as it's said in the word, there isn't anyone who has an excuse for not believing in God. I do believe that you can be taught by the holy spirit and by the holy spirit alone. I probably believe that though, because it says so in the bible. hahaha.
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                              Re: Demons/fallen angels

                              Fri, December 5, 2003 - 8:56 AM
                              so you're telling me i'm the only one that's afraid of the giants?
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                                Re: Demons/fallen angels

                                Fri, December 5, 2003 - 3:29 PM
                                no Kira... you're not... I'm with you one this one, including the not being a Christian.

                                Although I do respect everyone else's opinion and beliefs I do not share them. I was brought up that they only truth and right way was the bible and Christianity. What I have learned over the years is that everyone (no matter how fucked up & strange it may seem to others) has their own truth. Their own way of believing in God or even worshiping God.

                                So, that's my two cents :)
                • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                  Wed, January 21, 2004 - 5:00 AM
                  If it is truth. most of it is patronizing management

                  However this is not to say that thee arent precise laws that recquire unwavering obedience. Its jus that they arent stsred correctly in religions and by their practice
                • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                  Sat, June 5, 2004 - 11:42 PM
                  Ahhhhhh, but truth is subjective, 20 witnesses of the same event will give you 20 different versions. I personally think that the Unitarian Universalists are the only formal religion that is close to correct and you know what they say? ALL faith is truth, so everyone is right no one is wrong, i love that about them
                • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                  Tue, November 22, 2005 - 4:33 PM
                  wow, what a closed-minded thing to say about religion:"Avacodos being green. Let's say you don't like them being green and you just don't want them to be green and you hate following the belief of them being green. It doesn't matter they are!"
                  I'm going to bust out with a little Unitarian (Christian) thought right here: All religions are equal paths to the light none is more "correct" than any other.
                  Now, I'm going to let loose some quantum physics: Reality is created by our own belief in it./
                  Henceforth, anything that ANYONE believes is true/
                • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                  Wed, November 23, 2005 - 7:02 AM
                  LOL avacadoes turn brown when left to ripen,and as far as 'truth ' in the scriptures is concerned?That book of rules and regs and tales was written by men,men whos primary interest was to control the masses,that little book to this day is all about control.
      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Tue, January 6, 2004 - 4:06 PM
        The Book of Enoch talks about the race of giants (Nephilim) who were the result of angels impregnating human women. Apparantly this was the reason for The Flood. God was so angered by this that He decided to wipe out the Nephilim and the rest of civilization and start again. In addition to being giants the Nephilim were described as having white hair and very pale skin -- much like albinos -- and Noah himself was also described that way in some places. The Nephilim are mentioned 2 or 3 places in The Bible -- although I'm afarid I can't quote where, although I'm sure if you do a search you'll find out more. You can read several versions of The Book of Enoch here:
        www.pseudepigrapha.com/
      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Wed, January 21, 2004 - 4:56 AM
        this is very interesting. but i do not see it stating that these sons of god were fallen. According to urantia i believe you are right about the angels but it really depends upon the souls accomplishment. i do not believe there is a hell other then The one I creare for myself. sure suffering s suffering and it is because of disobeyance of laws. but every soul goes back to heaven to improve itself. love is gods and even a serious murderer has some mustard seed of love. All expressions of love are gods and live on forever. catholics hadnt made the necessary quantum leaps yet. Coming back is serious business it isnt a lark, it isnt ok next time il have a color tv. we are here to upgrade our souls in obeyance to god. To go beyond ourself in helping others. religions have done mankind a lot of good as well as a lot of harm. we cant get hooked in what they say. There is only one god but preaching th gospel i find a pain It is just being . Being happy , there is another book

        author On death and Dying......the so called gates of st. peter is our own evaluation of what we hqave done here on earth. and if we have failed in spects then we are placed in those classrooms that will provide the conditions we need to grow or learn what we have to do next time around. It is sort of like if you cant read you take remeadial reading. If you are an ace hey you go to the head of the class. everyone know what they are for and about.

        Now ther is another writer Genesis Revealed by Siskin i think that is his name. and his thesis is that there is another planet with an eliptical orbit and that it is men from this planet that taught the Egyptians and that mixed with the races down here.
      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Thu, June 10, 2004 - 8:15 PM
        Well, "sons of God" isn't clearly and angelic reference. Many will say so, but I don't believe they were angelic/demonic beings...and for precisely your point. How does a spirit being procreate?

        Your point about choosing to come back wouldn't make much of a hell is valid. Scripture says essentially we got one shot at it. And it's not about being wicked or not. It's about, do we want to be with God or not. Do we accept the invitation or not.
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Mon, December 8, 2003 - 8:11 AM
    From the Book of Enoch, Chapters 6 and 7
    wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/o...o/enoch.htm

    [Chapter 6]


    1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, 8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.


    [Chapter 7]


    1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

    That's where the whole giants thing comes from, in case anyone wanted a source.
    • Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Mon, December 8, 2003 - 10:03 AM
      This is good stuff - thanks for posting it!
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        Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Mon, December 8, 2003 - 5:18 PM
        There's a lot in the book of Enoch that's interesting to read. There are several versions. It was known in the Early Church and even quoted in the book of Jude. However, it's not considered inspired, because it was not written by Enoch himself, but by someone who was relating stories that were handed down. I get what I say about the Giants from the Old Testament not the book of Enoch. Just to let you know that that is where I was pulling from for the original post on this thread:) Just thought I'd say:)
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          Re: Demons/fallen angels

          Fri, December 26, 2003 - 11:19 PM
          It is called The Nephilim Jessica that you are talking about. it is always a Goth band "Fields Of The Nephilim0". Very cool. In the book "Angels" they talk about it.
        • Re: Demons/fallen angels

          Sat, December 27, 2003 - 11:25 PM
          Though there is lots of debate over what the Nephilim were, what people take as angels procreating with women can only be inferred from the term "sons of God"

          "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown." (Genesis 6:4)

          We can't really definitively know what they were. To take them as angels, in my opinion, takes it beyond what scripture says. Nowhere else do we see angels having the ability to reproduce.

          As far as Biblical transmission being like a game of telephone, it's a claim that doesn't pan out under examination. The words we have are from the earliest extant copies that are in existance and number in the thousands with no critical inconsisitancies among the copies. In fact the latest discovery of the oldest copy of Isaiah predated the previously oldest copy by 1,000 years. It was found to be consistant. I've tried tearing apart Biblical scripture to find it's inacuracies and in that journey discovered that I couldn't.
          Just sayin.
          • Re: Demons/fallen angels

            Tue, December 30, 2003 - 8:21 PM
            Ever read "The Gnostic Gospels"?
            • Re: Demons/fallen angels

              Wed, December 31, 2003 - 12:56 AM
              Yes.
              I have the entire collection.
              • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                Wed, December 31, 2003 - 2:53 PM
                Do you know the history of the translation? I wonder how many "editions" there are.
                • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                  Wed, December 31, 2003 - 5:30 PM
                  Well I have the Nag Hammadi Library. Which is about as definitve an edition that I could find. From what I know it was all translated directly from the found scrolls.

                  Heading off for New Years...have a good one! I'll return on the 4th...
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                    Re: Demons/fallen angels

                    Mon, January 5, 2004 - 5:21 PM
                    I just finished reading "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels and it was my introduction to these writings. I've been interested in reading them. But knowing how chopped, sliced and diced your basic bible is, I'm wary of getting a translation that likewise bastardizes the original intent. Of course, I couldn't tell you which editions are better than others, but each day, I learn a little something more.

                    It's interesting. Definitely got me thinking.
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Wed, January 21, 2004 - 4:32 AM
    I know a man who can get a woman pregnant...well it feel like you are pregnant and then disintegrates as a false pregnancy. I just read something interesting re the giants, There was a study done in the netherlands of pregnant women and their children when they were starved by Hitler. those unborn babes who received little or no nourishment were born longer and with bigger heads and grew to be obese. These fallen angels you speak of were part of 'the lucifer rebellion" and they were very real demons making people very demonic. lucifer was once a good angel who turned againt god and said No i want it my way . it is prety much the same as the devil concept today of being tempted to cut corners to avoid the promptings of ones soul to gain an object of desire. but this is according to urantia which i accept as truth lucifer is now exiled on another planetary universe.

    What you also may be thinking of is the sucubus . these are like beings that come to you in the night and you can feel their presense on you. there is a male version and a female i think is the incubus.
    Im not sure of the distinction you want here. a spirit can be felt. Demons are dark almost black , a dark presence. Spirit is a beacon of light.
    Do you want to get pregnant?
    • Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Wed, January 21, 2004 - 5:37 AM
      No preggers for me, thanks!

      So you don't believe, perhaps, that Lucifer is a trusted agent of God, just doing what he's told to do? Someone brought that up recently and I had to give serious pause...
      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Thu, January 22, 2004 - 5:05 AM
        From what I have discovered from the cabalian mystics is that angels were born into human bodies, Elijah the prophet was supposingly one, his name as an angel is Sandlephon,that is why the chariots came to get his spirit. He is the angel that fights beside the arc angel Michael against the constant battle of good and evil. Perhaps these fallen angels were resurrected as humans for punishment.The good angels would be known as phophets, celbate. While on the other hand the fallen angels disregarded Gods authority and created nephlims. The men of old.
        Also in regards to lucifer, there are stories I have read where lucifer is is the adversary of God, he is known as the accuser, when people die they are judged and he stands before God as with the persons gaurdian angel. Lucifer is the accuser and tells of all your crimes before God and what he has succeeded in making you do, while your gaurdian defends you. Almost like a court case for your spirit....
        • Re: Demons/fallen angels

          Thu, January 22, 2004 - 1:39 PM
          Can I interject and ask Mary Anne about the guy who gets women pregnant and then it disintegrates? Wha?


          Mystify, regarding the court case for your soul...I actually remember seeing something exactly like that once in a movie; in fact, it may have been a Twilight Zone episode.
          • Re: Demons/fallen angels

            Thu, January 22, 2004 - 5:04 PM
            Actaully that theory came from early jewish theologists in the torah.
            I do, however; see a lot of movies and things written relating to this as well as other stories in many different religions. People need inspiration from somewhere and what a better way then to get it from a story in which was already written and just revise it to their likings so to speak their own interpretation of it and some of their own extended ideas put into it.
            Anyone else ever notice this and that in some movies there is actually a message that can be seen, although many do not realize it, sometimes even the writter does not even see it.
      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Sun, January 25, 2004 - 11:30 PM
        No way.

        however in a psychological aspect just to free the mind i do believe in mind tricks that say for instance "do what you fear the most" or taking the judgement off a situation by disssmissing the right and wrong aspect because sometimes we do not want to do what is right because someone told us,or someone we dont like etc.

        there is right and wrong, there is morallaw though morality is not a religion and i am merely repeating what i feel to be true in urantia.

        in becoming free it is difficult at times to decipher god and selfdom from the authority of the conditioned mind and all such animu's that we have to get rid of. when people court the devil they want freedom but ...well we know the consequences
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Thu, January 22, 2004 - 7:58 PM
    Demons get women pregnant all the time. Look at the average man -- there is your demon.

    The sexual energy can can do wondrous or monstrous things to the human vehicle. When we awaken the kundalini in the positive direction through white tantrism, we transform ourselves into angels. When we practice black tantrism to awaken the kundalini, we transform ourselves into demons.

    Demons are extremely ego-centric beings, angels are selfless beings. Which of the two do most men represent? Yes, that's right... we're demons for the most part.

    mysticweb.org offers free courses on astral travel, self-knowledge, and the journey to enlightenment. All of them are free.

    These teachings are simplified versions of those handed down by the Venerable Master Samael Aun Weor, who was once a terribly powerful demon himself. You may read his last works by going to gnosticweb.com. The Treatise on Revolutionary Psychology is highly recommended.

    God bless!
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Fri, January 23, 2004 - 5:51 PM
    i was unaware that demons were generally thought of as fallen angels.. just that Lucifer was a fallen angel and like was the ultimate in demonkind... seems like, he wouldn't be that special if he weren't the only one.. right? I just figured that perhaps the actual demons, were Lucifer's creations (or sometimes the creations of mankind) and just because most people know a thing as a demon, doesn't mean it really is -
    • Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Fri, January 23, 2004 - 6:13 PM
      Master Samael said that Lucifer was the "Shadow of God." He's an aspect of our Being that the Divine Father uses to tempt us. He's a stairway that leads up and down. Our decisions in the face of temptation will bring us in the appropriate direction.
      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Sun, January 25, 2004 - 8:18 AM
        In the Bible, I remember reading and learning that when Lucifer was thrown out of heaven, 1/3 of the angels went with him. Those are supposed to be the demons? I'm not sure about some of these other posts, because I haven't opened my mind to most of it, or realized it even existed, but I'm willing to learn!
        • Re: Demons/fallen angels

          Sun, January 25, 2004 - 8:50 AM
          Yes that is correct.
          The story I have heard goes like this, it does not nessarily mean it is correct but it is certainly worth pondering over. Honestly many people have many different theories and opinions and does not mean they are correct.I think to really know the truth we would have to be there. All we can we do is speculate and ponder, but there is one thing here we are all certain of they exist....
          Here goes:
          Before humans were created there were the angels, God created one angel above all others the most perfect angel and named him lucifer, the name means all of which is light.
          God placed him and many other angels upon the earth to beautify it. Lucifer was given charge over the other angels. After a time he began to become envious of God and he felt he should be God so he began turning the angels that were with him against God, he suceeded in turning one thrid of the angels against God, they became his followers.
          They tryed to burns the gates of heaven down and over throw God on his throne.
          The angels Micheal and Sandlephon lead the pure angels in battle, they defeated lucifer and his followers.
          God threw lucifer and all the other angels that rebelled against him down to the earth. Lucifer was just the leading angel, the others were also were angels, some of the greater angels and some of the lesser.
          They were known as fallen angels with lucifer to rule over them.
          God then gave lucifer the name Satan, which means all which is dark. He was placed the king over this earth and God let it rot for millions of years, then he created the humans, his greatest creation, the greatest spirits he had ever created because not only did they have the power to co create with God, they had free will.One day they could be evil and the next they could change and become good. The angels did not have this, once they took on the evil spirit they could not change back.
          • Re: Demons/fallen angels

            Sun, January 25, 2004 - 9:12 AM
            The primary thing we should recognize is that this is just an allegory. The truth of the matter is in there somewhere, but it has been heavily obscured by symbolism. For that reason, it's not a good idea to take these stories at face value.
            • Re: Demons/fallen angels

              Sun, January 25, 2004 - 10:42 AM
              That is the point I made at the very beginning, it could be just someones theory or is could have the essesnce of some truth in it, or it could have more then that, the point is we do not know, the only way we could is if we were there. All we can really do is speculate and ponder over the thought as well as all the other theories and stories, I guess that is another thing about being human, never knowing but always searching for the answers.
              • Re: Demons/fallen angels

                Sun, January 25, 2004 - 1:48 PM
                Let's say you're one of the people who believe that we are all God, that God resides from within our spirit. The duality of angels and demons then points, as Mystify has written, towards a singular sorce - perhaps the One source that began all of this in the first place: this life.

                Could the perception and legacy of so-called good vs. evil be a reaction of the mind, as an extension of the soul, to the spirit comingling with the flesh? A spiritual or physical short circuit?
        • Re: Demons/fallen angels

          Sat, June 5, 2004 - 11:52 PM
          Aso another good chunk got thrown out because they refused to fight on either side, and while these were not evil they could not remain in heaven either and so became Earth spirits and settled and became known as faeries, devas, kitsune, sidhe, demi-gods etc. These former angels were also able to create progeny with humankind
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    Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Sat, June 5, 2004 - 6:00 AM
    From "A Dictionary of Angels," by Davidson:

    Nephilim--in Hebrew lore, the nephilim stood for giants of primeval times; also as fallen angels, or their offspring (the "sons of God" who co-habitated with the daughters of men, as in Genesis 6.) Closely related were the emim ("terrors"), the rephaim ("weakeners"), the gibborium ("giants"), the zamzummim ("achievers"), etc. [RF. Enoch I; DePlancy, Dictionnaire Infernal; Ginzburg, The Legends of the Jews; Numbers 13:33.] Head of the Nephilim was Helel (q.v.). According to the 9-the century writer Hiwi al Balkhi, the nephilim were the builders of the Tower of Babel. [Rf. Saadiah, Polemic against Hiwi al Balkhi, pp. 54-56.]
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    Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Mon, June 7, 2004 - 1:03 AM
    Hello, new comer here....I may have a little info for you...
    I read once in a book that went into the differences in Nephilim and Seraphim...Seraphim being the highest chior of angels...could apparently have sex with women...thus begetting Nephilim. They have the power and insite and an angel but they are bound to earth as "mortals". Even tho' they are not. That may be one of your fallen angels.
    • Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Sun, December 19, 2004 - 8:03 PM
      Seraphim are one of the choirs of angels. They're divided into three groups of three. "Archangel" is the highest of the lowest group of three; not a very high rank at all. Cherubim (sing: cherub; the word is Hebrew) being not fat kids with hallmark-logoed bows and arrows, but the highest rank, the ones with (IIRC) eight wings and four heads (this is why many early Christian paintings (eg 4th/5th C) have golden rings with symmetrical pairs of wings representing angels). Of the Cherubim, Lucifer was the highest, standing directly behind the throne of God, cupping his wings around him.

      For much about the angels, you need to head into the books of the Christian bible that modern Christians have thrown out. (There was too much obvious pagan mythology for them to survive. I'm surprised they left in Revelations; it reads like L. Ron Hubbard on acid.) I think it's bible.org that has much of the 'apochrypha' and parts of the pseudopygrapha available for browsing, with copious linguistic and historical commentary. The Torah has a lot of the details, and much of it is Kabbalistic in nature.
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Wed, August 24, 2005 - 3:49 PM
    Actually there are six classes of spiritual beings. They are angels which are messengers of G-d and his associated angels; demons are souls of people that have lost them from evil acts on earth; evil spirits which are produced from the intercourse of Ashmodai the Archangel and Lilith the anthropomorph like Adam; ghosts which are ruach of people that are still left here after the body has died; and elementals which are neutral immortals that are alligned to either fire, water, earth or air.

    As an exorcist, I have dealt with all of these classes of beings.

    Rabbi Barry Albin
    • Link to some intresting tantra stuff

      Tue, September 6, 2005 - 5:25 PM
      the giants are the nephilim, the fallen angels

      Since the story of the Flood is Indian in origin, it is in India that we must quest the clarification of the obscure details of this enigmatic passage of the Book of Genesis. First of all, who are the mysterious Giants, the children of the Sons of God by the Daughters of Men? They are called Nephilim in the Hebrew original and, in other passages, by terms such as Raphaim,Gibborim, Anakim, etc.. The Hebrew term implies a race of giant, arrogant men like the Titans of the Greeks and the Rakshasas of the Hindus.

      As the above quoted text explains, the Nephilim are the famous Heroes of old, the sons of the Sons of God by the Daughters of Men. The Sons of God are the Fallen Angels, and the Daughters of Men are the ordinary mortals. In Greek terms, the Heroes were the hybrid sons of mortal women by the gods, as is the case of Hercules, Jason, Perseus, Dionysus, etc..

      The experts have always seen in the Sons of God the same as the Fallen Angels such as Jubal, Jabal and Tubal-Cain. These taught all arts to men or, rather, to their fair, fickle daughters. Hence, they are the Civilizing Heroes of humanity, to whom we owe all that we know and, indeed, all that we are.

      Other authorities affirm that the Sons of God are the descendants of the Seth, the "replacement" of Abel, while the Daughters of Men are, to them, the descendants of Cain. According to this view, the Angels would be pure spirits, unable to beget children. In reality, the Angels, fallen or not, and the Sons of God are indeed the Angirasas, the Sons of Brahma. The word "angel" comes from the Greek angelos through the Latin angelus.

      But it ultimately derives from the Sanskrit angiras meaning "anointed one" or, yet, "igneous", "shiny", implying the idea of a shiny meteor. As such, it applies to the avatar of the Messias, who "fell from heaven like a lightning bolt". Angiras is also the archetypal Fallen Angel, Lucifer, who also fell from heaven as the vajra, as a sort of celestial meteorite, as an envoy ("missile" or "emissary") from the gods.

      The myth of Angiras closely evokes that of the Fall of Lucifer. It also recalls that of Son of Man falling from heaven "like a thunderbolt" and becoming "the rejected capping stone" that became the founding stone of the Temple. As a sort of fallen god, Angiras became the "Prince of this World", as well as the intermediary between gods and men. It is from this role that derives the etym of angelos as an envoy or intermediator or emissary.


      An intresting link

      www.atlan.org/articles/sacrifice/

      Unconditional Love and Light
      Dave
      • Re: Link to some intresting tantra stuff

        Wed, September 7, 2005 - 6:25 AM
        But ultimately, you did not answer the question as to who the demons are.
        • Answer

          Wed, September 7, 2005 - 7:25 PM
          I don't know Barry part of the dualality which is GOD?

          Unconditional Love and Light
          Dave
          • Re: Answer

            Wed, September 7, 2005 - 8:12 PM
            All of the major religions believe in demons. Each one posits that they come from a different place. Surely you have more than a statement that they are part of G-d.
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Thu, September 8, 2005 - 4:58 AM
    I recommend the book
    "From the Ashes of Angels" by Andrew Collins.
    • Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Thu, September 8, 2005 - 7:26 AM
      I know the name. He writes alot about Atlantis.
      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Tue, November 22, 2005 - 10:23 PM
        Collins writes to present evidence that the people we in modern times call the Atlanteans were in all probability an actual race of people whose civilization declined sometime around 12,00 to 9000 BCE.

        We of the modern-day have deemed them to be gods and or demons, numinous interdimensional beings, or "ancient astronauts". We mis-remember them, mythologize them, deify them... and many scholars simply won't go near Collins' concepts because of resistance from Old Guard academicians and clergymen who've definitely got a vested interest in keeping more of the facts from coming into the light.

        Think for a minute how difficult you yourself find it to surrender the ideas of your "gods" and your "angels" and even maybe your "ancient astronauts", and that they might not have been any sort of magical/supernatural or extraterrestrial beings... & then realize that the professors and preachers actually stake their entire life's work and reputation around the same traditional views.

        According to Collins, the "Atlanteans", the gods, the angels... call them anything you will, were not supernatural or extraterrestrial, but rather might actually have been humans from this very planet, albeit quite advanced over the levels that we have traditionally been taught.

        As the evidence continues to come in, we may have to redefine what we think of as "angels".
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Sun, November 6, 2005 - 9:03 PM
    My theories, for what it's worth... from 25+ years
    of research and quite a bit more than a past-time thing
    for me.

    I'm sure others have differing opinions and some will
    balk at my words, but the information is available
    in black and white from 1000's of years back.

    Angels are created beings.
    They were created before the earth was created.
    The first known fall was when one group was
    assigned as "Watchers" on the planet earth among
    the first existing humans.
    Some, if not all, of those watchers decided to
    have physical relations with human women.
    They had offspring.
    This intercourse was reason enough for that particular
    group to be locked in chains in Tartarus until the very end.
    Not ALL angels who've rebelled have been locked up by
    any means.
    The half-human-half-angel offspring are often the same
    creatures of mythology, the Cyclops, Hercules, giants like
    Goliath, who was part of the Anakim family who were
    NEPHILIM... the "Fallen Ones".. even AFTER Noah's flood
    they existed as did Goliath (from David and Goliath) and
    his four brothers.

    That which is born of the heavens returns to the heavens
    (whether for judgement or life) and that which is born
    of earth is bound of earth.

    Angels are NOT promoted human beings, contrary to
    popular belief.

    Nephilim are FLESH mortal creatures with IMMORTAL spirits...
    at least until they are "judged"...
    When their flesh dies, the ROAM THE EARTH... popping
    in and out of unprotected bodies as they wish...
    throwing "fiery arrows" or "thoughts" or even "fake memories"
    wherever they like... and they are ANCIENT...

    They are already destined to be judged and have nothing
    but hatred and vengeance on all they can, whether by
    doing enough GOOD and FAKING enough "miracles",
    or PRETENDING to be LONG DEAD RELATIVES or
    making YOU think you were "reincarnated" by planting
    incredible things in your mind.. they are just doing what
    they do in dimensions which we in the flesh are currently
    not able to roam in and out of freely.

    The flood was brought upon the earth BECAUSE of
    that abomination.

    The were NOT all wiped out from the flood and
    no doubt other angels mated AGAIN later because
    SOMEHOW Nephilim ONCE AGAIN came upon the
    earth AFTER Noah's flood.

    They will ONCE AGAIN roam the earth according to
    prophecies.

    Anyone who consorts with "the other world" are just
    willing victims of the spirits of the Nephilim, quite
    real, ...

    Other names...
    the fallen ones ,Nephil, Nephilim, Rephaem,
    Ghosts, Poltergeists, Demons, Evil Spirits...
    ALIENS... UFO's are a great fabrication and
    part of a last grand plan to deceive humanity by
    not just bringing fallen angels back to be WORSHIPPED
    but by using NEPHILIM and GENETICALLY ENGINEERED
    monstrosities with Nephil blood as well... "little
    green men" etc...

    There are MANY other creatures as well, those locked
    up in the Abyss which even DEMONS fear.

    This is a fantastic subject and subject to incredible
    amounts of controversy, so take my words for
    what they are worth.

    Hope this helps :)
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Mon, November 7, 2005 - 11:55 AM
      "Hope this helps"

      Umm, well, not really. You have not given any sources whatsoever for your research. I find it very limiting that you honestly believe that in a Universe this size that there aren't lifeforms on other planets. And you seem to be taking quite a bit of mythology as fact.

      So, no, it doesn't help at all. Not one bit.

      But thanks for posting.
      • Re: Demons/fallen angels

        Tue, November 22, 2005 - 5:27 PM
        actually does anybody here who's expressing their views have any rock solid proof?

        A bunch of people speaking as if they "know" the truth. Who can back their views up?

        "Surely you have more than a statement that they are part of G-d."

        What else is there? What else does it need to be?

        If God is everything, then evil is part of God. And God is omnipotent, he could choose to fingersnap it out of existence. But he/she/we doesn't. Therefore God must be OK with it, at least for now.

        And I love the whole Fallen/rebellion story as much as anyone else. But c'mon people, like you're gonna' sneak up on God with something she/he/we didn't see coming?

        Sheesh.

        Relax ya'll, it's just a ride.
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Tue, March 14, 2006 - 7:56 PM
    A good friend of mine said something that makes sense. That demons are beings living in great pain, and the only way they feel better...so to speak, is to drag others to their level. Its the whole misery loves company syndrome. I feel we are in contact with angels and demons almost constantly (just ask them) and as we evolve in our spiritual path, so to do the demons. Once we have attained that which we are all moving towards, consiously or unconsciously (the evolution of self and the realization/awakening that we are beings of spirit existing in spirit), the demons (or fallen angels if you prefer) are able to become that which they once were, before losing it to an existance of pain.

    Another friend of mine had a vision, in this vision there was a being sent forth to explore a realm (area of creation...) that was yet unexplored. As this lightbeing entered the unknown, it became trapped. A prisoner in a prison where it (the angel) reigned supreme. In this realm it experienced pain, power, greed....etc and soon lost what it once was. Other angels came forth to free the first angel, but they too became trapped. Then other beings came forth to help free all the others, some were able to remember who and what they were, and were able to escape, only to return to assist the others. This is happening even now.

    She, my freind, is a very gifted person, and the bond we share transcends more levels then I think I'm even aware of. She had never read anything, or heard anything like her vision, though there are similar accounts out there. When she told me what she had witnessed, it struck a chord, deep inside my soul.

    Hope this helps!!!!!

    Thanks all for being involved in this wonderful experience, we all have our place and we are all a key part!!! Namaste.
    • Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Thu, April 13, 2006 - 3:58 PM
      So basically, either you can trust some entities (but not all, even though maybe you should pray for the one's that you can't), or you can't trust any of them (and if you have anything to do with them, especially if you send energy their way, you're stepping up to the big G__).

      And there's differing reports as to whether they (individually or collectively) fell, were pushed, or jumped.

      Y'know, there's been more than a few times where I've almost driven myself past the brink of mental illness on this issue. I've gotten to the point where I've said screw it, I just label all my prayers with "the Highest of the High, Creator", and trust that they're getting to the right place.

      I got sick a couple years ago of being told (or reading) that yoga in any form was spiritually perilous, especially Kundalini. It's not a lot of fun trying to explain to fundamentalist Christians that no, the poses and chants aren't Luciferic magikal gestures and invocations, they're just feedback systems inherent to the human body and conciousness (which is theoretically in the image of the creator).

      Then again, maybe the Nephilhim have gotten to me. I dunno, I like to think that the fragmentary images and sensations that are fairly analogous to "past life" memories are nothing more sinister than trace amounts of ancestral memory, fabrications of my own sub-concious meant to teach my waking self certain vital lessons, or possibly even resonance points between my current personal existence and others long gone. I can trace how that would work without intercession of any higher or lower beings, simply as a result of living in a causal (and sometimes maybe non-linear) reality. Or maybe I've got traces of non-human blood in me, but I tend to think otherwise (although it might explain some things I seem to have an OK heart and soul, I'd really hope that the surges of love that I sometimes feel unconditionally for every living thing (including the less than likable ones), aren't there to lead me away from righteousness. If so, I really have to wonder about a creator who'd allow that kind of imposture).
  • Re: Demons/fallen angels

    Mon, December 18, 2006 - 4:52 AM
    K basicaly the angels/fallen angels are not what the bible would have you believe, these beings of old, were all of the same cast they were extraterrestrial in origin and came to this world hundreds of thousands of years ago, humans are there creation, not the creation of a divine creator of the universe, human were created to work and serve , this is still something ingrained into us to this day, before homosapien there were other attempts, they tried to mix the dna of the original primitive man with the dna of other animals, none of these produced succesful results, but the memory of these creatures have carried on through folklore and mythology, eventualy we were created by a mix of there own dna with the primitive man, ie 80% them and 20% primate, the result being the species we are today, hence, how we were made in the image and in the likeness, we are not gods special creation we were his/there workforce, humanity served, this gold of old who was vengeful full of wrath and was a dictator, human beings were later given the ability to have children as the demand for more workers grew as humans became more populous they were just moved to different areas of the planet, as time past, many of the angels/gods left but many stayed to oversee our world, but they were attracted to the women of men, they came down to earth, (Fallen angels) and took wives for themselves, the resulting children were born with many deformaties, one of which was giantism, (there were giants in the land of israel in those days, as the bible quotes, wen the hebrews came to israel they found that in that land there were nefilim( ie, giants, titans), anyway the point is the angels/demons could have children with human woman because they are not spiritual beings they are physical flesh and blood beings who share the same genetic structure and were therefore able to breed but not without consequence
    • Re: Demons/fallen angels

      Tue, December 19, 2006 - 6:38 PM
      Aside from my interpretation of this point being steted as THE way it is, I agree with most of it.

      However I enjoy believing that Angels were created by those which they called gods as we were created by them. And so we will also learn the ways of creation and create a speciec of our own to populate some place for some purpose unknown to me. It seems to be an ongoing cycle.

      As for a prime creator. I think that being is the "one" which created every vibration from a void of nothingness through manifesting sound and light somehow. From then on it created new reflections of aspects of itself to explore itself.

      Yeah I do well not to be overly concrete about these things. Who knows when some new fantastic hidden knowlege will arise(or descend) into our consciousness. Then the less we hold onto the better we can less go of preconceptions and adapt. I feel that kinda goes for everything.

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